Vectra - strange starting problem

Recenty I bought a 2000 Vauxhall Vectra 2.0 DTL and need help with
starting problems.

1. 5-8 centigrades below zero - the motor starts at once, but it
sometimes works rough for a moment.
2. about 0 centigrades - the motor won't start (it takes about minute
of cranking to get it started). After using "EasyStart" spray it starts
after 2-3 turns and works well.
3. when the engine is warm then starts fine, but a few hours after
(when it cool down) it doesn't start again.
4. glow plugs, fuel pipe, fuel return pipe, pipes linking injectors,
battery are new
5. glow plug unit, cylinders pressure, fuel filter are OK (were tested)

I have no idea what's wrong yet.
Cheers all

 

You probably dont want to hear this but if all the things you have outlined
are ok then perhaps it might be a cylinder compression problem, i.e. a badly
worn engine. (a warmer engine means that the pistons will fit the bores
better, resulting in higher compression and better ignition). the thing is,
wear this badly would show in blue oil smoke from the exhaust.

Now I;ve thought some more, I would try checking the heater plugs. being new
doesnt matter. (ever had a light bulb blow fresh out of the box?). also the
connections to same.

perhaps the injectors arent all they should be. you didnt say the mileage,
but they dont last forever. try some injector cleaner in the tank.

Mike

 

Thank's for reply.

The cylinder's pressure is OK a hundred percent. The mechanik said that
it was like in a new car.

OK. I'm going to check them tommorow again.

I have just phoned to a car service. They say that the new injector
seals should fix the problem, but I will check heater plugs first

 

I don't know much about diesels but your case 3) does sound like that
in a recent discussion on this NG about injector seals:-

http://snipurl.com/mer5

Maybe a bit less hassle on the 2.0DT...

 

I've just read that. It looks not good.

:-D

 

That was me with that problem.
The dealer had the car today. He said that the injector seals and leak
off pipes are OK. They changed the fuel filter because they've had fuel
filters fail and cause this problem.
If it's not that then the only thing left is a new injector pump at some
ridiculous charge (like 50% of the value of the car).
I'll see how it starts in the morning and advise.
Dave

 

Plug a test light into one of your glow plug wires and make sure they are
actually coming on - glow plugs might be new but if the relay has gone then
it they aren't going to work.
Vauxhall actually sent out a note to dealers saying that customers with 2.0
diesels are having cold start problems when they get a few miles on them -
the answer was for dealers to reprogram the engine ecu - I guess it changes
fuelling when cold - don't know if this is relevant to yours or not but
thought I would mention it. the reprogram was chargeable to customers by the
way cos it only covered cars over 3 yrs old.

 

Mutter, Mutter
Well. It's not fixed. I'll leave the car now until Monday morning and
see what it's like then. £ouch I suspect!!!
I'll have a chat with the dealer on Monday.
Dave

 

injector seals

 

No
Dealer has checked and found them to be OK.
Dave

 

Do you know if this applies to the 2.2Dti Fiat diesel engine used in the
Vectra?
Dave

 

What 2.2 is that? 1.9 is a Fiat based engine but I thought 2.2DTR engine
was just a bored 2.0 Vauxhall unit - it looks exactly the same as one.

 

It's a 2.2DTi (turbo with inter cooler) Fiat engine same type as the 2.0
liter Y20DTH, not the same as the new 1.9. The car is an X-reg/2000
model. As far as I understand its the Y22DTR engine. This is why I
picked up on the ECU remap comment to cure a cold start problem in
higher milage engines.
Mine has done 70,000 miles
Dave

 

Thanks all for help.
I have checked the heater plugs and connections to them. All is OK.
Injector seals was changed and the engine was cleaned by the way. My
problem is actual. Motor won't start immediately. Now it needs about 10
seconds cranking irrespective of temperature at morning. Third point in
my first post is actual too. I try clean injectors therefore I added
black STP to the oil two days ago but there is no improvement at this
moment.
Any ideas?

 

Could you give some more details about what was cleaned on the engine? I am
wondering if somehow it might be pulling air into the fuel lines when
stationary. It wouldnt take a lot of air to produce what you describe. has
there been signs of oil around the injectors/pipes/pump that you thought
might be engine oil, but possibly might have been diesel oil? I'm just
thinking out loud here, but maybe fuel cooling down is contracting, i.e.
reducing volume, and pulling in air. the only place this would matter is at
either end of the metal pipes from the pump to the injector, or in the
injector itself. or maybe the injectors are leaking fuel into the cylinders
when stationary. does the tailpipe smoke much when you are trying to start
it, before it actually starts? if so this could be fuel vapourising but not
actually buring that has puddled in the crown of the piston.

Mike

 

Could you give some more details about what was cleaned on the engine?
1. valve ends were polished
2. piston crows and the top side of cylinders were cleaned
3. all the engine parts through the air going to the cylinders were
washed (there were a lot of dirt)
4. seals under head of engine and valves lid were changed (there is no
oil leakage now)

What can I say...? The mechanic said that all with fuel pipes were OK.
I have no tool to test that by myself.

There is no oil around things you wrote. Writting about addition to the
oil I meant 'diesel oil'.
Sorry, I should have written more precise.

During I'm trying to start it doesn't smoke very much but there is more
white smoke
when it starts.

Maybe will be helpful if I describe the whole starting process:
1. first 5-7 seconds cranking without an effect
2. the engine tries to start 2-5 times within next 5 seconds (with
short intervals)
3. the engine starts and work properly
4. (Now I noticed it every morning) within first 2-3 minutes, when I
put my foot
down the engine works badly. I have the feeling that one cylinder
doesn't work. It's
most perciptible at 3-4k rpm.
5. after that it starts and works well as long as is warm. When the
engine cools
down I have to do first three points again.

I don't know what else to do.
Greetings

 

Have you checked that you are getting a live feed to the glow plugs?
Don't keep using easy start cos over time it will wash the oil from the
bores and lower the compression.
Easy way to check injector seals is to take the fuel filter out - if the
bottom half is oil contaminated the seals have gone and the oil is leaking
into the diesel - you some times notice the oil level rising as the diesel
seeps into the sump.

 

the only place this would matter is at either end of the metal pipes from the pump to the

I checked them tommorow morning and I saw that a piece of one metal
pipe with the nut near injector are dirty/wet. Other are clean.

 

Have you checked that you are getting a live feed to the glow plugs?
Yes, I did

OK. I'll be remember it. Thanks for the warning.

Seals are good because they were changed. I wrote about it earlier.
Should I check them again?

 

Hello! This metal pipe and nut was checked and everything is all right
(I cleaned it later and there is no dirt/oil on it).
I have noticed another thing. When I disconect engine temperature
sensor (this with two wires) and join a 10k resistor instead sensor the
engine starts immediately (independently of the temperature). What's
going on? Have I got wrong or faulty sensor?
I have changed them recenty becouse I thought it didn't work properly.
With both sensors (old and new ones) engine doesn't start. With the
resistor starts. At least I'm sure that other (mechanical) things are
good now.

Greetings